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Apr. 4th, 2007 @ 11:32 am Rant Post #12
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macca
abromeds:
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From:padawansguide
Date:April 4th, 2007 10:35 pm (UTC)
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You're just trying to suck up to safelybeds! :-)
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From:abromeds
Date:April 4th, 2007 10:47 pm (UTC)
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Amen.
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From:minds_opaque
Date:April 5th, 2007 02:35 pm (UTC)

Was Ringo really blameless?

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I was going to say you're right, but when I was writing my rant below about Brian and picking a new manager, it occurred to me that Ringo probably wasn't totally blameless. No offense to Ringo or to safelybeds, who is awesome. :)

Part of the problem with the business was that instead of making a unanimous decision as they had always done, the Beatles started making 3-1 decisions. With his amazing interpersonal skills, Ringo could have suggested, "we're not all going to accept either manager, so let's pick someone new we can all agree on," and he could have gotten them to go along with that. Ringo had felt like all three other Beatles were against him during the White Album period, so you'd think he wouldn't have wanted to side with the others against Paul. Why would he want to inflict that on Paul? Basically, Ringo didn't have to side with the other Beatles against Paul. He could have helped them reach some sort of compromise.

Of course, that's nothing compared with what the others were doing. And Ringo deserves a lot of credit for being so nice about Yoko, although I'm sure Yoko annoyed him a lot of the time. It's just that even Ringo wasn't blameless.
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From:minds_opaque
Date:April 5th, 2007 04:42 pm (UTC)

Re: Was Ringo really blameless?

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he has always done that.
Did he? I'm not a Ringo expert, so what are you thinking of?

So other then having no backbone, yeah, I still think Ringo was pretty blameless, and just along for the ride.
I guess whether you blame Ringo depends on whether you can judge someone for what they didn't do, not just what they did do. You know?
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From:hb_princess
Date:April 5th, 2007 03:28 pm (UTC)

Re: Was Ringo really blameless?

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Part of the problem with the business was that instead of making a unanimous decision as they had always done, the Beatles started making 3-1 decisions.

Thank. You.

Why nobody EVER points this out when they start in with all the "Paul sued his best friends OMGHESUXELEVENTYBILLION!!" bullshit is a mystery to me. No doubt Paul was pretty fucking stupid (or, okay, maybe NOT so very stupid) to try and push for his new in-laws, and no doubt John and Yoko were gullible morons (you pick a manager b/c he knows which songs you wrote, John? Hello?), but the bottom line is that all decisions to that point had been all-or-nothing _ ALWAYS - and all of a sudden this one wasn't. That's a betrayal, folks, any way you slice it - and I don't blame Paul one bit for saying, "Well, then, fuck ya! See you in court, assholes."

(I do blame him for a myriad host of OTHER bad behaviors, mind you - just not that one.)

And, yeah, Ringo definitely had a hand in that as much as anyone.
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From:minds_opaque
Date:April 5th, 2007 04:40 pm (UTC)

Re: Was Ringo really blameless?

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I don't blame Paul one bit for saying, "Well, then, fuck ya! See you in court, assholes."

And see, that wasn't even his attitude. He describes himself agonizing over whether he had any other choice but to sue them. Paul was definitely betrayed, but I don't see any sign that he went the revenge route. That's pretty cool.
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From:abromeds
Date:April 5th, 2007 04:45 pm (UTC)

Re: Was Ringo really blameless?

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Hmm, I would say it was a bit of both. I don't doubt the decision was excruciating, but that doesn't mean he wasn't pissed as well. With a capital "sst." ;D
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From:minds_opaque
Date:April 5th, 2007 04:50 pm (UTC)

Re: Was Ringo really blameless?

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Could be! I don't know how much his anger went into the decision to go to court. But when the other Beatles were calling it a betrayal, Paul could say not only did he have to do it, but they betrayed him first.
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From:abromeds
Date:April 7th, 2007 02:11 am (UTC)

Re: Was Ringo really blameless?

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the bottom line is that all decisions to that point had been all-or-nothing - ALWAYS - and all of a sudden this one wasn't. That's a betrayal, folks, any way you slice it

Ooch, yeah, that is true. :( I guess "blameless" isn't the best term... "significantly lacking in blame relative to the other three" would probably be better... ;)
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From:padawansguide
Date:April 5th, 2007 03:48 pm (UTC)

Re: Was Ringo really blameless?

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I don't think any of them were blameless. If anything Ringo withdrew and perhaps should have been more interactive. It seems like he often deferred to the others, and perhaps when things were bad, he should have tried to bridge the gaps instead of backing off. That's just my impression of course. I'm not sure it's something blame him for, per se...
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From:pauls_left_hand
Date:April 6th, 2007 12:23 pm (UTC)

Re: Was Ringo really blameless?

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To paraphrase (because I can't remember the quote), bad things happen when good men do nothing.

It's painful, but you're right. As a good friend he should have stepped in unless, of course, he was just as pissed off with Paul as the other two.
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From:magegirl8
Date:April 23rd, 2008 03:56 pm (UTC)

Re: Was Ringo really blameless?

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Ringo was so sweet about John's unruly behavior....

He said he was confused about why Yoko was in the studio, but John explained it to him, and he was all like, oh, i kinda see what you mean, even though it's something I wouldn't do myself...

And I love how his reaction to the 'Virgins' cover was, oh my, you even have the New York Times in there! *pretends John's dick isn't hanging out in the photo*


And this might have been the photo, or something else - but John was doing something controversial, and Ringo was like, it's YOU doing it, but we(fab4) are all going to get flack for it you know.... And John's like, come on, it's just a few phone calls from reporters you'll have to deal with (or something like that I don't remember exactly) and RIngo's like, fair enough, go ahead....


From:ladysbaby19
Date:April 4th, 2007 11:29 pm (UTC)
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I agree with you ;) but of course we all try to suck up to her.