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Apr. 18th, 2007 @ 07:28 am Rant #17
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macca
abromeds:
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From:abromeds
Date:April 19th, 2007 10:06 pm (UTC)
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There is no difference between saying taking drugs to Japan is stupid and saying putting someone in your band who cannot sing or play an instrument is stupid.

HB can certainly speak for herself, but I think there very obviously is a HUGE difference between those two things. One is illegal, dishonest, and puts your entire future, and subsequently the future of your entire family, in terrible jeopardy. The other creates a situation not conducive to creating great art all the time.

you obviously just like Linda too much to be objective about her role in Paul's band.

Um, no.

That's actually what my point is! I think you are percieving my post as an attack on Linda.

No, dude. We're taking exception to the fact that you think Paul ought to have lived his life according to your (extremely subjective) priorities. That he, like you, should have let the quality of his art, or the "sacredness" of art itself, or whatever, overrule whatever benefits he believed he got from having Linda in the band. We don't see how that's anyone else's call to make. As HB said, that just crosses a line in our minds. Feel free to draw your line elsewhere, but please understand that THAT is our issue, not a bias toward Linda or a need to "kiss up" to Paul or whatever.
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From:zyzzybalubah
Date:April 19th, 2007 10:58 pm (UTC)
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"No, dude. We're taking exception to the fact that you think Paul ought to have lived his life according to your (extremely subjective) priorities."

I have not said a single thing about how Paul lived his life! I have not said a single mean thing about Linda. I have no problem with Paul & Linda spending every single day of their lives together, That was all romantic and GREAT FOR THEM!

All I am saying is that Linda was a bad singer and non-musician and Paul would have been better off as a musician and songwriter working with truly talented people. I don't see how that is remotely more judgemental than any other single rant posted in this community. If you can point me to any past rant that isn't based on someone's opinion, I'd be very interested to see it.

Obviously you and HB are Linda fanatics and that's fine but I don't appreciate the both of you accusing me of "JUDGING PAUL AND LINDA ON HOW THEY LIVED THEIR LIVES". I have not done that AT ALL. I simply disagree with Linda pretending to be a musician and that is all I have said in the numerous responses. I have said nothing...zero...nada...about how they lived their lives.

If you want to disagree about Linda's musical worth, fine. I would love to hear a defense other than "that's what Paul wanted" or "they wanted to be togther all the time". Out of all these replies, the best defense of her musicianship that I've read was something to the effect of ...she wasn't that bad.

Is it for me to say how Paul should pick people for his bands? Ultimately, no. Of course not. But I believed this comm was for people to discuss what bugs them about things concerning the Beatles. I don't see how saying I think Linda should not have been in Wings is any worse than the posts about how George was arrogant and should've quit the Beatles (How dare that ranter judge George for how arrogantly he lived his life, that's his choice) or why the Beatles broke up (OMG, how dare that ranter question the Beatle's choice to disband. Don't tell them how to live their lives). The May Pang rant was downright personally mean. I have said nothing mean about Linda.

So if you want to disagree with me about Linda's musicianship, fine but please don't accuse me of dictating how Paul should have lived his life because I did no such thing. I've criticized how he made his music but NOT how he lived his life.


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From:abromeds
Date:April 20th, 2007 01:59 pm (UTC)
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All I am saying is that Linda was a bad singer and non-musician and Paul would have been better off as a musician and songwriter working with truly talented people.

Yes, and we've agreed with you there. I've agreed with that since the very beginning. I'm not sure how you missed that. We're not "Linda fanatics," we're not defending Linda's "musical worth."

We have, however, mentioned a few extenuating circumstances which moved Paul to put Linda in the band in spite of all that. They were completely personal, non-music-related reasons. Your dismissal of them indicates to me one of two things.

1, you consider them invalid reasons, and think they ought not to have outweighed Paul's artistic scruples, or sense of artistic integrity, or whatever. That he ought not to have let his personal comfort/peace of mind overrule his dedication to making the best music he could. And yeah, to me, that does cross the line into making judgements on how Paul lived his life.

Or 2, you want this to be a purely "artistic" discussion with no mention whatsoever of personal/emotional motivations, which would be fine, I guess, if rather boring. But if that is the case, then you can read my earlier comments to see how I agree with you, though again we'll probably hit up again against that concept of "artistic credibility," which I don't care about but you do. It doesn't bother me that someone with a mediocre voice and no musicianship should be allowed to play a few chords and sing a bit in a band. I just don't care. I might not like the results aesthetically, but I have no problem with the principle of the thing, the way that many of you apparently do. *shrug*

I don't see how saying I think Linda should not have been in Wings is any worse than the posts about how George was arrogant and should've quit the Beatles (How dare that ranter judge George for how arrogantly he lived his life, that's his choice) or why the Beatles broke up (OMG, how dare that ranter question the Beatle's choice to disband. Don't tell them how to live their lives). The May Pang rant was downright personally mean.

I don't remember vader questioning their choice to disband; wasn't it just an explanation of why she thought they broke up? And criticizing George for arrogance is different; his arrogance was hypocritical and hurtful to others. That makes a HUGE difference, in my mind. I don't remember the May Pang rant.

I'm not sure what your point here is; are you feeling unduly persecuted or something? Or are you accusing me of being inconsistent? I'm quite comfortable that my opinions are not inconsistent, but frankly I don't feel like taking the time necessary to defend them to someone who has misunderstood so much of what I've said in the past. It's quite possible I was more active in disagreeing with you on your rant than on others -- What can I say? I might choose to voice or not voice my disagreement for a variety of reasons, how busy/tired I am, how much I care about the issue, the quality of the ranter's writing, the mood I'm in, etc. etc. etc. This isn't my job, you know.

For the record, even if you are, IMO, making a judgement on how Paul lived his life, that doesn't mean I think you're like, EVIL, or MEAN or anything. Presumptuous perhaps, but that's about it. It's true that HB was overaggressive in her original post, as she's so graciously admitted and apologized for below. :) Again, as I said in my last post, feel free to draw your "line" elsewhere, we'll agree to disagree, but please understand that THAT is my issue, not a knee-jerk need to defend Linda's musicianship because I'm an irrational fanatic.
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From:zyzzybalubah
Date:April 20th, 2007 02:49 pm (UTC)
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Look, I read about half of this and stopped.

If you are going to keep insisting that "Linda shouldn't have been in the band because she was not a musician" is equal to "I'm telling Paul how he should've lived his life"...then I really have nothing more to say because that just doesn't make a lick of sense.

If you'd like to discuss what I actually posted about ..ie.. Linda's lack of musical ability and how it effected Paul's music, that would be wonderful. However, I'm not going to be bothered with anymore of this "I've crossed the line and am judging Paul and Linda's life" nonsense.

I've made my points very clear and politely and I am, frankly, sick of repeating myself.

Cheers then :-)
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From:abromeds
Date:April 20th, 2007 08:38 pm (UTC)
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Linda's lack of musical ability and how it effected Paul's music

I have already discussed it. I've agreed with you, several times. I just think there are other issues involved.

I've made my points very clear and politely and I am, frankly, sick of repeating myself.

Well, that makes two of us, then. Oh well, I'm sure we both tried our best. :)