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Apr. 4th, 2007 @ 11:29 am Rant Post #11
Yoko Love... Maybe Not!



Like there are people bashing Yoko like crazy, there are people that make you feel that if you don't love her, you'll burn in the fire of hell 'cause Saint John [Lennon] won't let you be in Heaven.

I know is tiring to hear Yoko bashing everywhere, but the people rubbing Yoko love in your face when you don’t give a sh*t about her is also tiring. There are people like me that doesn’t hate her, but doesn’t love her either, and they can live a peaceful life without hearing/reading her name [specially her voice] and people would make you feel like not a real fan [of The Beatles] just because you don’t trust in John’s common sense of falling in love with her. The most frequent example is “If John loved her, you should do it too”, well, my response to that, people said the same thing with Heather Mills, and look what happened to the people that trusted in Paul’s common sense of falling in love with her, we just CAN’T judge someone we don’t know, in a good or bad way.

I can’t seem to love Yoko [even if I tried] ‘cause we don’t have anything in common, I don’t really like her music, I don’t understand her art, believes, way of thinking, there’s just nothing that I can find appealing to even say that “I like her”.

And to the people that have tried to make me feel like I don’t deserve to call myself a Lennon fan, I just can tell them that I bet John would have understood why I don’t like his wife more than they do.

I stopped bashing Yoko when I understood that I don’t know her enough to really judge her and make an opinion of her, so, I only make ‘neutral’ talks about her, sometimes I confess the things I agree about of what she does and maybe some times I say what I don’t like of the things she have done, but are opinions based in real facts, not in fantasy idiotic things like “Oh she’s a witch and she broke up the Beatles”. [Like I said, I stopped that shit ‘cause I stopped caring].

I just say that no one has the right to hate her without knowing her or a real fact, that you truly know it happened [Like the one’s that says that she broke up the Beatles, if you have real facts that proves that theory, well, go and tell it to the world, write a book or something, but if you don’t, just keep it to yourself] and the one’s that blindly loves her just because John did, you should start making your own decisions and think for yourself, specially when you’re preaching your love for her and trying to brainwash other people to love her too.

The point of all this, is that I make my own decisions, and I decided not to give a sh*t about her, and it totally annoys me when people is trying to shove Yoko into my life, to me, she’s only John Lennon’s widow.
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john-pepper
abromeds:
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From:padawansguide
Date:April 4th, 2007 05:50 pm (UTC)
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The most frequent example is “If John loved her, you should do it too”, well, my response to that, people said the same thing with Heather Mills, and look what happened to the people that trusted in Paul’s common sense of falling in love with her

I like this point!

We're going to form our own judgements, no matter what - we've all got our opinions on Beatles, and how can we love any of them never having met them or interacted with them? Sure, you can say I can't fully judge Yoko because I didn't know her, but her actions and such are very public, so I think I can form an opinion based on those things. Maybe that's not the whole Yoko, but it's enough for me. And for the record, I'm not a fan - I very much don't like the way she interfered with the Beatles - maybe she didn't break them up, but she inserted herself in a very presumptious way, something Linda was very careful not to do. (The Emerick book I've been pimping has some interesting stories to this regard. The straw that broke the camel's back for George seemed to be her eating one of his digestive biscuits.)

I don't like the way Cynthia discovered Yoko wearing her bathrobe, in her house. That's just tacky. And sure, that's John's fault too.

I don't like that Yoko isolated John from the Beatles post-break-up and fostered this deep-seated dependence. I don't like the heroin use she encouraged. Etc. etc. I may not be able to speak on how she is personally, but I can still form opinions on her actions.

I do like that she seemed to have taught John the value of women as the equals of men. So I'll give her that much.

And if John doesn't like my opinions on Yoko, that's too bad! I'm glad he was able to see something that I can't, but just because I don't get her or her art doesn't mean I'm not able to be a fan of John. :-)
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From:chester_bnngton
Date:April 5th, 2007 12:13 am (UTC)
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At least I've made my opinion on The Beatles, and that's that I like them, but is because their talent more than anything else, their music is the first thing on my "Why I love The Beatles" list, but not liking Yoko's can't make me form an opinion of her, maybe I don't like her, but I don't hate her either, is a 50/50 situation, I can tell the good and the bad of her (the public things), but I can't judge her, 'cause I don't know her. That's the main thing, like I can't judge Paul, John, Ringo, George etc.

but just because I don't get her or her art doesn't mean I'm not able to be a fan of John. :-)
AMEN!
From:world_falls
Date:April 4th, 2007 06:04 pm (UTC)
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There are people like me that doesn’t hate her, but doesn’t love her either, and they can live a peaceful life without hearing/reading her name [specially her voice] and people would make you feel like not a real fan [of The Beatles] just because you don’t trust in John’s common sense of falling in love with her.

I'm mostly neutral on Yoko, all though at times I fall more heavily on the side of being annoyed by her than anything else. Mostly, I would be perfectly content if I never had to discuss much about her again. And it's bullshit to say if you like John you'll like her. For Christsakes, how many people in RL do each of us know that date/are engaged to/MARRY someone we just don't like all that much. But yet, you can continue calling that person a friend, maybe a best friend, and just not click with their partner.
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From:chester_bnngton
Date:April 5th, 2007 12:15 am (UTC)
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Completely agree with you, my best friend's ex-boyfriend was annoying and I totally hated her and still I adored my best friend as much as before he met her hahaha...
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From:zyzzybalubah
Date:April 4th, 2007 06:39 pm (UTC)

This is really long! LOL

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When I was like 14 and 15 I got heavily into the Beatles. At that time, I was just discovering all the basic Beatle info and mythos and watched things like "Imagine: John Lennon" and "Gimme Some Truth" and I totally bought into all that "John & Yoko = Romeo & Juliet" stuff but as I delved deeper into reading various biographies and interviews with others in the know, I realized it wasn't that simple. Their relationship was anything but fairytale-like. It seems, to me, that John really had an unhealthy addiction to Yoko. Actually, I have my own complex theory about the John/Yoko relationship that I'll share with you now. LOL

From all I've read and heard about John, it seems that he had a strong need for patriarch-type figures in his life. He was abandoned by his father as a child and then passed off from his mother to be raised by his domineering aunt. He grew up seeing the female as the "boss" in male/female relationships. He had a great need to connect with his mother whom he viewed as an illusive free-spirit. As a teen, he finally begins to form a relationship with his mother and he shares with her his love of music and that becomes a bonding tool for them. Just as all this is happening, his mother dies.
When John forms the Beatles, Brian Epstein enters his life. Brian becomes John's manager and all around caretaker, thus filling the role of parent and since Brian was gay and had many feminine personality traits he effectively became both father and mother to John.
Flash forward to when Brian Epstein dies. The feeling for John is essentially like losing his mother and father all over again. He has no one to take care of him. It is around this time that Yoko enters the picture. Yoko is much older than John and is also a very shrewd business person. John sees her as an crazy free-spirit like his mother and starts a romance with her. John even cryptically mentions Yoko in the song "Julia" which is written for his mother showing the obvious connection he makes between the two of them.
When the Beatles break up, it's another life altering moment for John and he clearly let's Yoko steer his life path. Therefore Yoko begins to take on the role that John's aunt played in his youth. This culminates with Yoko kicking John out of their home. John has once again lost his "parent".
John then has a relationship with May Pang. May clearly had much affection for John and he to her but with May being younger and also being his employee at one time, this made John the dominant one in the relationship. Just like in his first marriage to Cynthia, this was a role John never psychologically matured into accepting. He was used to being the "child" and being the one taken care of so as soon as the he gets the opportunity, he goes running back to Yoko.

So, to make a long story longer... I believe John was not so much "in love" with Yoko but more that he had a deep psychological need to have someone with authority take care of him. With Yoko (whom he frequently refered to as "mother"), he must have felt he had his mother, his aunt and Brian Epstein all rolled into one.

But hey, what do I know? LOL
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From:adaveen
Date:April 4th, 2007 06:50 pm (UTC)

Re: This is really long! LOL

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What she said.

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From:xxprettyinmetal
Date:April 4th, 2007 08:09 pm (UTC)
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I try not to push my own Yoko loving agenda in people's faces but when you're in a conversation of people saying, "oh I think she's horrid" and "John should never have married her" it's hard not to say, "well I think she's fantastic and it's a shame more people don't think like that."

Seriously, there are so many people pushing their Pattie love in my face when I am certainly no fan of hers, or more recently, their May love, that I've come to just ignore it.

For the small ammount of people that do like Yoko there are about a million people who don't (sad but true) and for the small group who actually give her the respect she deserves as A HUMAN BEING there are even more still who don't.

She’s only John Lennon’s widow
If she was anyone else's widow, that would get her a certain ammount of respect.

Now everyone has the right to either like or dislike someone, and to express their opinions. Everytime I open my mouth (or start typing) I expect my pro-Ono views to get bashed to high heaven.

John would never have done anything if he didn't on some level want to. Stop blaming her from him isolating himself for the beatles, or for breaking up with Cynthia (who I also adore), or for doing harder drugs...

I guess I'm just trying to say that people like me who actually like Yoko, and not just because she was with John, who actually enjoy her and her music, find it hard not to speak up about it, like you all praise Linda or Pattie or Maureen, and we shouldn't be made to feel guilty about it.
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From:adaveen
Date:April 4th, 2007 08:30 pm (UTC)
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I like Yoko, too, on her own terms. That doesn't mean I don't think their relationship was "differently functional".

;)

In fact, I'm sort of surprised she didn't really get tired of his codependant nonsense. Then again, maybe she did once in a while.
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From:queenpeladon
Date:April 4th, 2007 09:28 pm (UTC)
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Who's been pushing their Pattie love in your face? I thought I was the only Pattie fan in Beatle fandom! At least, judging by the amount of anti-Pattie secrets there are in beatlesecret.

"I guess I'm just trying to say that people like me who actually like Yoko, and not just because she was with John, who actually enjoy her and her music, find it hard not to speak up about it"

Like you, I'm largely pro-Yoko, and not simply because she's John wife and "that should be enough." (Urgh.) I appeciate her for being a strong, independent, brave woman with important things to say and an interesting way of saying them. And as a John fan, I also deeply appreciate the positive influence she exercised over him. A lot of Beatles fans would say her influence was destructive, and I see where they're coming from, but I just can't ignore the wonderful changes she inspired in him. She's not perfect, but nobody is, and I do sort of adore her. :)

That said, I've never felt any reluctant to voice this opinion - I've found most Beatle fans are pretty accepting of the diverse Yoko perspectives out there, and I've certainly never received any flack for speaking well of her. Don't be afraid to praise Teh Yoko!
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From:abromeds
Date:April 4th, 2007 10:33 pm (UTC)
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John would never have done anything if he didn't on some level want to. Stop blaming her from him isolating himself for the beatles, or for breaking up with Cynthia (who I also adore), or for doing harder drugs...

I think Yoko does deserve a big portion of blame for those things. Yes, everyone has free will, but some people are exceptionally vulnerable to manipulation, and while that's "their own problem" in a sense, it doesn't excuse anyone who decides to selfishly take advantage of it, as I believe Yoko did.

That said, I echo queenpeladon's reasons for liking/respecting Yoko. I don't think she's teh ebul. And there's NO WAY I could say with any conviction that she was the "worst" one in the relationship; I believe JohnandYoko was all sortsa fucked up, and a lot of that came from John's end -- he treated her absolutely abominably, at times. So, if I try to be objective, I really can't say that there's any reason for me to like Yoko less than John.

But unlike John, Yoko doesn't make me gasp in awe of her brilliant art, or go all squidgey inside with irrational lurve. ;) Which isn't her fault, but it does probably warp my view of their relationship.
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From:chester_bnngton
Date:April 5th, 2007 12:38 am (UTC)
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In my HO your love for Yoko is more than ok, you like her art, believes, music, etc. That's wonderful, is just like liking any other artist, but there are people making you feel like a bad fan for not liking what she represents/does/did just because John loved her.

They are as annoying as the one's that hate her without any real fact, that's what I mean, loving her for what she does, is more than perfect, but loving her just because John did is not having personality haha.

I respect her as much as I respect anyone, my neightbor next door, my teachers, the pope, she's a humanbeing and as one she deserves being treated with respect. But not because of that I will love her right?.

Not long ago, I used to say that because of her John did horrible things, then I realized that John did what he did because he wanted to. I know he was easy to manipulate, but still he was a man, with a brain to tell him what's right and what's not. He was a grown up and knew what he was doing, he could have said "No" if he wanted to, but he didn't so.... there's no one to blame.

We shouldn't be blindly in love with John either to try to find someone to blame for his acts, in fact, whe shouldn't even blame him, it was his life and he could do whatever he wanted with it, I'd hate someone blaming me for breaking my ex-boyfriend's heart because I didn't love him. Sure, their relationship was in the spotlight and a lot of people can give their opinion etc etc, but in the end, it was THEIR relationship and THEIR lives, they could do whatever they pleased with it. And in a love relationship there are only two persons, so the rest of the world can complain all they want, they were two making their own decisions.... period.



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From:queenpeladon
Date:April 4th, 2007 09:19 pm (UTC)
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I absolutely agree with everything you said, particularly this:

"I just say that no one has the right to hate her without knowing her or a real fact, that you truly know it happened [Like the one’s that says that she broke up the Beatles, if you have real facts that proves that theory, well, go and tell it to the world, write a book or something, but if you don’t, just keep it to yourself] and the one’s that blindly loves her just because John did, you should start making your own decisions and think for yourself"

Being a Beatles/Lennon fan in no way means you have to support or agree with everything John said and did; I cannot bear that sort of attitude. So good job all-round, I think. :)
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From:madzilla
Date:April 5th, 2007 12:21 am (UTC)

I LOVE YOU.

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THANK YOU for this rant, I have been thinking about posting more or less the same thing for ages now. I don't have much to add, just wanted to say how glad I was to see this, and that I feel the same way - I'm so happy that there are others that do too. I don't have to be full of adoration for Yoko/Linda/whoever just because a Beatle was married to them, and whether I like them/don't like them/don't care or not has absolutely no bearing on how 'big' a Beatles fan I am.

Thanks, again. ♥
From:(Anonymous)
Date:April 5th, 2007 12:40 am (UTC)

Re: I LOVE YOU.

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You're welcome, luv :)